• Zero tolerance mode in effect!

Камнеметательная машина и борьба с бросанием камней

Прочитал в ЖЖ баечку про девайс, созданый в Израиле для адекватного ответа камнемечущим супостатам.
Воронка, из которой сыплется щебёнка, и устройство, мечушее сыплющиеся камушки в заданом направлении.
Где можно посмотреть фотографии и описания этого девайса?
 
Помнится, когда какой-то африканской стране пару лет назад это штуку продали, было много вони в прессе.
 
Ha'aretz
July 3, 2000

IDF READIES INTIFADA ERA WEAPONS FOR RIOTS

The IDF is preparing to use vehicles once used for dispersing violent clashes with civilians during the early stages of the Intifada, in anticipation of serious disturbances in the West Bank and Gaza in coming weeks surrounding a Palestinian declaration of statehood. The IDF has made assessments predicting that an imminent unilateral Palestinian declaration of independence in September may spark riots in the occupied territories. The IDF is readying various equipment for use in upcoming weeks, including Hatzatzit, a crowd-dispersing weapon that shoots out thousands of pieces of gravel at distances of hundreds of meters. But some IDF officers have criticized the weapon's effectiveness, saying it that the vehicle is slow and fraught with technical difficulties. Some officers viewed the vehicle as symbolic of Israel's failure to effectively counter and contain the Intifada. "The only advantage was that the soldiers felt they were returning to the Palestinians some of their own weapons," an officer who served in reserve duty in the territories during the Intifada recalled. IDF intelligence assessments view clashes with Palestinian protestors as inevitable, and say that the only unknown factor is the timing. They also believe that the Palestinians may use some of the methods recently employed in Lebanon, where an action by civilians sparked the fall of the SLA. In Lebanon, civilian columns entered and succeeded in taking over areas held by IDF soldiers, who did not fire on them.
The Jerusalem Post
November 10, 2000, Friday

Better than bullets

Arieh O'Sullivan
...
THE IDF has long disliked the police role with which it has been burdened since the Six Day War. The apolitical nature of this task, called in military lingo OOTW for "operations other than war," compromises the army and has forced it to seek out new strategies and weaponry that will change the traditional nature of fighting - since blood, guts, and especially death are no longer politically acceptable.

At the Ephraim Brigade headquarters in Kedumim, the hatzatzit, or gravel-throwing half-track, sits in a parking lot, weeds slowly creeping up over its treads. The IDF used its technical ingenuity a decade ago to come up with this contraption against stone-throwers in the original intifada. But it is now an anachronism, as today's stone- throwers are also armed. And, in a bizarre twist of logic, the IDF has concluded that you don't fight armed Palestinians with stones.

The IDF's current non-lethal arsenal consists largely of such basic weapons as tear gas and rubber-coated bullets. (The plastic bullets popular during the intifada have been dropped, since they proved to be as lethal as regular bullets and highly inaccurate to boot.) According to a senior commander in the West Bank, one scenario the IDF expects, and fears, is a massive assault by unarmed civilians on a Jewish settlement. The IDF (and no doubt the Palestinians) saw this tactic used successfully in Lebanon by Hizbullah forces last spring - and it led to the swift collapse of the SLA, which held its fire.

The IDF plans to meet such a "peaceful" assault with unarmed Border Police who will physically bar them from entering the settlements. Nearby will be armed troops ready to use crowd dispersal weapons (tear gas and rubber-coated bullets), and prepared to step in with live weapons if these fail.
...
 
Помнится, когда какой-то африканской стране пару лет назад это штуку продали, было много вони в прессе.
По исходному тексту хреновина называлась "хацацит".
Я как ни пытался записать это слово латинсикми буквами, гугля всё равно ничего не находит ;(

PS соббсно, http://www.livejournal.com/users/xelen/722271.html
 
The Guardian (London)
March 10, 1988

Shamir rejects Shultz initiative

By IAN BLACK
JERUSALEM

Mr Yitzhak Shamir, the Israeli Prime Minister, rejected the latest US Middle East peace initiative yesterday.

His rejection coincided with the Palestinians in the occupied territories marking the start of the fourth month of their uprising with a general strike, two more dead and at least 10 wounded in clashes with the Israelis.

In responding to the unrest the Israelis for the first time used a gravel cannon, dubbed the 'Hatzatzit.'
...
The Jerusalem Post
February 9, 1990, Friday

ARMY TESTS JEEP-MOUNTED STONE-THROWER

By JOSHUA BRILLIANT, Jerusalem Post Reporter

TEL AVIV - The IDF is testing a jeep-mounted stone-thrower (in Hebrew, "hatzatzit," or gravel-thrower) which should overcome some of the drawbacks in the earlier device mounted on half-tracks, The Jerusalem Post was told yesterday.

The new mini-model is being tested in the Ramallah area and can shoot 600 egg-sized stones an hour to a distance of 75 metres. Only one person is needed to operate it.

Military sources said yesterday there were several drawbacks to the half-track mounted version. Palestinians shielded themselves with garbage-can lids and advanced towards the half-track between the gravel barrages.

The half-tracks sometimes proved to be too wide for the narrow alleys in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and commanders feared they would get stuck there and be exposed to counter-attacks.
JANE'S INTELLIGENCE REVIEW - MAY 01, 2001

The Al-Aqsa Intifada: tactics and strategies

During the first intifada (1988-1990) the IDF used a specially developed armoured vehicle which dispensed large quantities of gravel but it was only marginally effective and was discarded.

JANE'S INTELLIGENCE REVIEW - SEPTEMBER 01, 2001

Israel investigates non-lethal options

IDF anti-riot tactics demand the maintenance, where possible, of a maximum stand-off range of at least 100-150m to prevent close contact between crowds and soldiers. This range precludes the use of 'bean bag' rounds, or bruise-causing sacks of rubber balls fired from shotguns or grenade launchers which have an effective range of only 10-15m. Water cannon, the locally developed 'gravel launcher' and other short range anti-riot gear, are also ineffective at such ranges. Thus the NL equipment available to the IDF in these encounters was not compatible with its ROE and these measures proved ineffective against the huge groups of demonstrators storming IDF positions, who were not deterred by tear gas and rubber bullets. In some cases, Palestinian youths climbed onto pillboxes attempting to lob Molotov cocktails into the apertures, and were killed by live fire.
Jerusalem Post
Jan. 4, 2004
What a riot
By ARIEH O'SULLIVAN

...
Prior to the present outbreak of violence with the
Palestinians, known as the Al-Aksa Intifada, the army gave
its troops rudimentary riot-control training. It was mostly
a leftover doctrine from the days of the first intifada and
was served warmed up with a few new techniques.

"After Oslo there was euphoria," says Col. (res.) Yossi
Daskal, who served as chief intelligence officer in the
Central Command (G2) in the 1990s. Everyone was saying 'here
comes peace' and we saw a sudden drop in hostile incidents
from 3,000 a month to just 15 and half of these were merely
stone-throwings."

But after the bloody Tunnel Riots in 1996, Daskal said, the
penny dropped. This marked a turning point for the IDF. It
retired the anachronistic "gravel thrower" used to disperse
crowds and started developing a different doctrine for what
the Americans call "combat other than war." Here it was
called "limited, low intensity conflict (LIC)"

"We wrote the doctrine on LIC," says a senior IDF officer
intimately involved with doctrine and training, speaking on
condition he not be named.
...

http://groups.google.com.au/groups?&start=30&hl=en&lr=&selm=3FF973E2.8060606%40columbia-center.org&rnum=35
Israeli police chief defends shootings
By Alan Philps in Jerusalem
(Filed: 04/09/2001)

THE Israeli police commander responsible for the killing of 13 unarmed Israeli Arabs last October defended himself yesterday, saying his men had been unprepared for civil disturbances and had no choice but to use live rounds.

The testimony of Alik Ron, commander of Israel's northern police district at the time of the protests, had been eagerly awaited as the key to understanding a policing disaster likely to haunt Israel for years.

Israel was forced to confront the painful issue of the treatment of its Arab minority as it was being criticised at the United Nations Conference Against Racism in Durban as a new "apartheid state".

The commander told a commission of inquiry in the Supreme Court that the Arab demonstrations had come "like a bolt from the blue" and police were forced to use firearms because they felt their lives were in danger.

He criticised politicians for not providing more riot control gear, such as gravel-throwing machines. For budgetary reasons, many policemen were not trained in the firing of rubber-coated metal bullets. "It was an intelligence failure," he said.

The deaths of 13 young men - some of them shot in the back - destroyed relations between the government and the Arab minority, raising questions of how the Jewish state is going to deal with an increasingly disaffected group in its midst.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Content/displayPrintable.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2001%2F09%2F04%2Fwmid04.xml&site=5
 
Дело ясное, что дело тёмное.
Жаль, что никто не может поделиться техническими подробностями...
 
Действительно, сей, аппарат назывался Хацацит. Я проходил мини курс по его использованию на одной из южных баз, примерно в 1994 году. Притом, что, служа в Йоше с 1992 по 1995, ни разу не видел его применения. Агрегат стоял у нас в хатмаре Рамалла, но ни Магав, никакие другие части в эти годы на моей памяти его не использовали.
Экипаж состоял из трех бойцов. Водитель, боец и командир расчета. Воронка представляла собой просто бетономешалку, которая выплевывала щебенку по мере ее наполнения бойцом исполнявшего команду командира. Кстати команды передавались по гермошлемам, так как из-за большого шума это был единственный способ сообщения.
 
1) Была такая хрень

2) обсуждалась подробно на форуме-с полтора года тому, поищите в "военном деле"
 
Воронка представляла собой просто бетономешалку, которая выплевывала щебенку по мере ее наполнения бойцом исполнявшего команду командира. Кстати команды передавались по гермошлемам, так как из-за большого шума это был единственный способ сообщения.
Если можно, тут поподробнее.
Из воронки щебёнка сыпалась на ... ?
Или воронка вращалась и метала щебёнку за счёт центробежной силы?
Откуда и каким образом щебёнка поступала в воронку? Лопатой из бункера?
Спасибо.
 
Видел такую штуку в далеком 95, в тюрьме Кциёт.

Внутри ЗАХЛАМа камера с мотором, если правильно помню, он крутит нечто похожее на водяную мельницу с лопатками, камушки на лопатки попадают из воронки, в которую боец закидывает коробки с щебенкой. Вроде там было коробок 50.

В действии не видел и не уверен что это кагда-нибудь применялось, ибо (самоцензура) не гуманно.
 
Выше: в первый раз - в 88-м и т. д. - первая "интифада", в последний раз - в 2000-2001-м.

stonethrower.jpg

stonethrower2.jpg
 
А вот в мех.обработке существуют такие пескоструйные и дробеструйные аппараты. Тоже прикольная штучка.
 
Вполне понятно что при нормальном правительстве решить проблему с камнями просто - например ездят по дорогам автомобили и когда в них бросают камни стреляют в толпу. Недели наверное хватило бы отбить навсегда охоту. А при ненормальном, какое мы имеем сейцчас, что будет если зарядить ружье для paintball мелкими камнями и проехаться по шоссе? Возможно ли ето технически и политически? Например камнеметателей найти не могут а людей с painball тут же найдут.
 
Пейнтбол-ган - это мелко:
http://www.waronline.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=175312#175312

Например камнеметателей найти не могут а людей с painball тут же найдут.
Kого с кем искать будут? В первую иттифаду участников несмываемой краской с вертолетов метили, если вы это имеете.
 
Пейнтбол-ган - это мелко:
Kого с кем искать будут? В первую иттифаду участников несмываемой краской с вертолетов метили, если вы это имеете.
Я имел в виду как технический - могно ли стрелять из paintball камнями нестандатрной формы, так и политический аспект - искать то будут не палестинцев, а тех кто осмелится с ними боротся.
Партнеры по процессу все таки.
Преимуществa paintball - компактность и доступность.
Еффективнее было бы просто стрелять обычными пулями - да низзя.
Спасибо за ссылку - очень интересно - но для предлагаемой стратегии не пойдет из-за размеров
 
Ага, дошло. Предлагаемой - кому, или в Бостоне проблемы с камнеметателями? Так лучше подойти - и по щекам ему, по щекам, мер-завцу.
 
Ага, дошло. Предлагаемой - кому, или в Бостоне проблемы с камнеметателями? Так лучше подойти - и по щекам ему, по щекам, мер-завцу.
А зачем вы так ехидно - если я в Бостоне живу то ето не значит что мне за Израиль не больно. Давайте заменим "предлагаемой" на "обсуждаемой". так действительно звучит лучше.
Мне просто хотелось понять можно ли самим что либо сделать - или просто немедленно и бесполезно арестуют. А по щекам вы лучше меня знаете может и можно было раньше давать да время упущено - теперь стрелять предется.
 
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